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 Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?

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pen5
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Peter Goodwin
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Bollocks!
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slicer
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slicer

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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 10:50 am

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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 3:05 pm

ACTIVISTS. Says it all really.
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 5:23 pm

As I have pointed out many times, David Rose either does not understand what he is writing about or he does and he is deliberately misleading the ignorant readership of the Daily Mail. I suspect the latter but neither reflects well on him.

Given the content of most of his articles, he appears to be a mouthpiece for Nigel Lawson's GWPF outfit.

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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 7:04 pm

So why is it that he is wrong and you are right Spog?
Anyway it wasn't the right or wrong debate he was talking about but the trouble he has been caused by the opposition to his views .
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 8:46 pm

I've stopped reading spog, but I bet a pound to a penny he's slagging off Daily Mail readers? :P:
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 11:45 pm

Quote :
So why is it that he is wrong and you are right Spog?

That's a bit of an odd question because it's not him against me is it?  He is arguing against science which is overwhelmingly accepted by every learned body in existence and backed up by large amounts of evidence, whereas your question implies that it is just an opinion I happen to have. I no more have an opinion on this than I do about quantum mechanics, evolution or plate tectonics.

You don't need to be an expert to see through the nonsense he writes but maybe you do need to have some basic understanding of science and to be reasonably numerate because if you don't have those things some of what he says might sound superficially like 'common sense'.  As I said, I think he knows what he is doing and he is taking advantage of the ignorance of his readership.  One of the most blatant examples is from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] he wrote a couple of years ago. He tried to counter some criticism of his earlier article as follows:

Quote :
Q Did The Mail on Sunday ‘cherry-pick’ data to disguise an underlying warming trend?

A Some critics claim this newspaper misled readers by choosing start and end dates that hide the continued warming.

In fact, we looked at the period since 1997 because that’s when the previous warming trend stopped, and our graph ended in August  2012 because that is the last  month for which Hadcrut 4 figures were available.

The emphasis is mine in the above.

What he did here was to admit that he has cherry picked the data. The point is that he made an assumption that the warming had stopped then and then used that assumption to prove that the warming had stopped.  You might not be able to see this, I don't know, but it would be obvious to anyone with the most basic level of training in statistics.  He doesn't have to worry about that though as long as he gets his message through to his target audience.

Quote :
Anyway it wasn't the right or wrong debate he was talking about but the trouble he has been caused by the opposition to his views .

You didn't read past the headlines then because, after the sob story, he did take the opportunity to slip in a lot of the usual stuff. As Peter said, it is a long article and maybe you got distracted by the stories about celebs in bikinis before you managed to finish it ;)

As far as the 'trouble' is concerned, he seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill. The worst that seems to have happened is that someone posted an unsavoury message about him in a newspaper forum (which I bet was only there for a while before it got moderated). I certainly don't condone such messages but I notice he didn't mention any others.  On the other hand I see no problem in calling him a denier. He seems to take exception to that for some convoluted reason that involves him being Jewish and because there are such things as 'holocaust deniers'. I'm not quite following his logic there. Holocaust deniers deny that the holocaust took place; AGW deniers deny the science on AGW. The only common thing is that both groups deny something that there is a lot of evidence for and do not provide any convincing evidence of their own.

Oh, and by the way, many climate scientists have received death threats simply for trying quietly to do their job. These come from the sort of nutters that are more than likely stirred up the crap they read in newspapers like the Daily Mail, so forgive me if I don't feel too much sympathy for David Rose.
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 11:52 pm

Auguste1: it would be a bit naïve to think the Mail published this because of the unpleasant response that Rose has got in the past. In fact we've all heard, or even experienced ourselves, much worse. Anyone who takes a public platform (not to mention some who don't, like immigrants or people fleeing war and famine) risks getting the treatment Rose got, or worse. Look at the case of Caroline Criado-Perez, for instance, who merely wanted to see a woman's face on banknotes. Like most papers, The Mail reported the horrific abuse she got for that. The alarming thing is reading the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] from some of the Mail's readers.

What the Mail is trying to do by publishing the Rose stuff is to equate, in the minds of its readers, those who take climate change seriously with a section of the lunatic fringe, while at the same time ignoring the mainstream global consensus that man-made climate change is real, presents an ever-increasing threat, and needs urgent action. Looking at this article in isolation, you'd believe that Rose has the science on his side and only the insane would challenge his ideas! I think it would be fair to say that most Mail readers lap this sort of thing up, because it reinforces the the things they want to think. It all seems very ugly to me.

As a footnote, I see they threw in a reference to the incident here in Bristol where, after the Parliamentary fracking vote, the office of city's sole Tory MP was targetted with personally abusive graffitti ('fracking whore'). I put a comment on that story in the local rag to point out that her LibDem neighbour had voted the same way, while Labour members sat on their hands rather than get them dirty - although they knew that by abstaining, there'd be no moratorium on fracking. Another commenter added that the fracking vote would never have been reported if it wasn't for the vandalising of the MP's office.

It all happens in Bristol. Tonight there are people camped in trees in an effort to stop them being felled tomorrow. Better to have activists than inactivists, don't you think? (No don't answer that...)
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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 11:57 pm

I didn't notice any celebs in bikinis but perhaps they were bathing in the Global Warming.
It still does not excuse the behaviour of the " swampy " types in the Green Movement whose total input into the debate is to threaten the way of life we have and want to return us to the 14th century.
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 12:14 am

Those 'Swampy' types - not to mention all the scientists and a global consensus - are trying to stop climate change from threatening the way of life we have.  That's the point.

Anyway, you would have liked the 14th century...   people knew their place then!
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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 10:52 pm

I don't think I would have enjoyed it that much PG , Black Death , famine , Little Ice Age. A bundle of laughs and windmills.
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 1:43 pm

I picked up a copy of "One Million Climate Jobs" on the Climate March in London yesterday. It's a good read, putting a very persuasive and clear case for tackling both climate change and the austerity agenda at a stroke.

It's online as a pdf at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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reedkerr
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 7:09 pm

Are those the windmills you can't use in high winds and have large subsidies to run and construct, I do prefer the idea of tidal power generation .
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 8:21 pm

or nuclear fission? thinking
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 9:25 pm

We're already subsidising nuclear fission, FF. Even though the industry's at least 60 years old it hasn't yet worked out how to break even - let alone how to deal with the radioactive waste - or to meet the cost of comprehensive third party insurance.

The 'Million Jobs' report isn't specifically about wind turbines, reedkerr, it's about a whole raft of measures that create jobs and combat  man-made climate change.  I agree about tidal power, but I'm pretty sure we need all genuine renewables - and above all, new means of energy storage.
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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 10:27 pm

Is fracking classed as green !!!!!!!!!!!
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 10:42 pm

My bad - fusion! sad
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 09, 2015 1:00 am

Auguste1:  No.  Should it be?
The allegedly 'green' excuse offered for fracking is that it doesn't (or possiby doesn't) release quite so much CO2 as burning coal.   But you can justify pretty much anything with arguments like that.
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2015 7:39 pm

Hmm? thinking

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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 09, 2015 9:15 am

Flywheels as an energy store, big-scale? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could maybe solve the biggest problem of balancing supply and demand.
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2015 9:48 am

What a waste of our money!

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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2015 11:15 am

A totally misleading article FF because it's in the Express !.
If the tree huggers had spoken the truth as this is then it would not have been misleading.
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2015 12:58 pm

Do you also agree with Christopher Booker's views on the effects of asbestos and cigarette smoke a1?
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slicer
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun May 03, 2015 11:54 am

This should re-awaken the debate:

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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeMon May 04, 2015 11:41 pm

On acceptance of the science - just read this from Caroline Lucas's 'Honourable Friends?':

Conservative MPs in particular are detached from public opinion on climate change. Despite all the mud stirred up by the energy companies and some contrarian 'deniers' over climate change, three quarters of people in Britain believe the climate is changing because of human activity; but among MPs this falls to half, while a staggering 71% of Conservative MPs think that human-induced climate change is either unproven or 'environmentalist propaganda'.

The evidence for the claim isn't cited, but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 21 Icon_minitimeTue May 05, 2015 9:38 am

Hmm! Might change from UKIP to Conservative now. thinking
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