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 Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?

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George Sand
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Copey
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edradour
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Spog
ff
Peter Goodwin
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where's the remote
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edradour
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edradour

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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Or as the fellow got it correct. (sent to me today)

Ian Rutherford Plimer is an Australian geologist, professor emeritus of
earth sciences at the University of Melbourne, professor of mining geology
at the University of Adelaide, and the director of multiple mineral
exploration and mining companies. He has published 130 scientific papers,
six books and edited the Encyclopaedia of Geology.



These are his extensive credentials.

Born
12 February 1946 (age 67)

Residence
Australia

Nationality
Australian

Fields
Earth Science, Geology, Mining Engineering

Institutions
University of New England, University of Newcastle, University of
Melbourne, University of Adelaide

Alma mater
University of New South Wales, Macquarie University

Thesis
The pipe deposits of tungsten-molybdenum-bismuth in eastern
Australia (1976)

Notable awards
Eureka Prize (1995, 2002),Centenary Medal(2003), Clarke Medal
(2004)


Where Does the Carbon Dioxide Really Come From?

Professor Ian Plimer's book in a brief summary.

PLIMER: "Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland .
Since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED
EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2
emissions on our planet - all of you. Of course, you know about this evil
carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it’s that vital chemical
compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into
oxygen for us humans and all animal life.

I know....it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon
emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience
and expense of driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting
up till midnight to finish your kids "The Green Revolution" science
project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only
two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank
reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of
abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of
your 50 cent light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs.....well, all of those
things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days -
yes, FOUR DAYS - by that volcano in Iceland has totally erased every
single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there
are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any
one time - EVERY DAY.

I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should
mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in
1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the
entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.

Yes, folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over One year - think about it.

Of course, I shouldn't spoil this 'touchy-feely tree-hugging' moment and
mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized
800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keeps happening despite
our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud, but the
fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and
Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our
world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping
carbon tax on you, on the basis of the bogus 'human-caused' climate-change
scenario.

Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention 'Global Warming'
anymore, but just 'Climate Change' - you know why?

It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century
and these global warming bullshitartists got caught with their pants down.

And, just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading
Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you that will achieve
absolutely nothing except make you poorer.

It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.

But, hey, .....go give the world a hug and have a nice day.
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 06, 2013 11:04 pm

True.
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Peter Goodwin
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Peter Goodwin

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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 12:17 am

He doesn't look like the most reliable or independent of climate change authorities (or even a rational advocate of evolution against the creationists) - though James Delingpole, like FF, seems to believe his every word. In fairness to him, though, it's not clear whether the words above were Plimer's, or just some other denialist giving their own interpretation of his claims

or just google "Ian Plimer". If it's not too inconvenient.
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auguste1
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 12:40 am

I don't think the word independent can be used for anyone in this debate.
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where's the remote
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where's the remote

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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 12:59 am

We don't agree often A1, but very true, I rarely post on this topic.  As I've said before it's best not to take sides, bit like Israel and Hezbollah o

Not quite "a plague on both their houses" but both should take a look at their stance and some of the 'evidence' they use smile
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 9:41 am

Moi? I just look around. Not much has changed in my 74 years. Sometimes winter's a bit colder, sometimes summer's a bit hotter. The sky changes colour as usual.

Most of the greenies' fear is modern communication; 'twas always going on, we just didn't hear about it.....

The Russians were a bit lenient the other week?!?
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 12:05 pm

Plimer is a well-known science denier and has been extensively debunked. In that quote above he is just making stuff up. Here's [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that compares Mount Pinatubo CO2 emissions with anthropogenic emissions. I can't even find any evidence of where that quote originally came from - it seems to have been doing the rounds for a few years.  So not only is the information it contains complete BS but we can't even verify its source!

WTR:

"both should take a look at their stance and some of the 'evidence' they use"

This looks like a fair-minded statement at first glance but I don't think it gets us anywhere without concrete examples of what you are referring to. There is a danger of falling into the 'false balance' trap.

You seem like a rational sort of person most of the time but it seems to me that you have been fooled - as have many others - by those who want to give the impression that there is any real controversy about this. These are the tactics used successfully in the past by the tobacco industry to manufacture controversy and over-emphasise uncertainty and they are being used again.  If anything, it is easier than ever to sow doubt these days with modern communication methods.  Look at the research done by Nancy Oreskes, summarised in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].  It is more than using the same tactics: there are actual historical links between the people and organisations involved.

Ignore the popular press and ignore vested interest blogs. Look at who is making the claims that the science is wrong.  Of these, only a handful are scientists who have anything like plausible credentials.  You will see the same few names come up: Lindzen, Plimer, Carter, Spencer.  None of them, with the possible exception of Lindzen(*), has put forward any alternative theories to our modern understanding of climate.  That understanding has been reached over the course of 150 years or so, encompasses multiple lines of evidence, has explanatory power for historical as well as current climate, and is accepted by every national scientific institute on the planet.  The sceptical approach is to accept the science until someone can provide a different theory that has the same explanatory power.

(*) Lindzen did have a theory of sorts - his so-called 'iris hypothesis' - but the evidence for this has not been forthcoming and he does not try to defend it these days.
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 12:09 pm

Quote :
Not much has changed
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 5:51 pm

But that doesn't even cover my lifetime! What about the other few hundred thousand years?!?
And I can assure you that the weather around here has NOT got warmer in the last 50 years. You could sunbathe on Redcar beach when I was a lad, but you'd probably freeze your cojones off nowadays.doh 
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 7:02 pm

FF: The clue is in the name: Global warming. Not Redcar warming. Mind you, don't most of us remember the long hot sunny days of the long summer holidays? They weren't really all like that...memory is selective.

Add to that that older people have poorer circulation, so it feels colder and you put more warm clothes on.
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

Quote :
What about the other few hundred thousand years?!?
But I thought we were talking about changes in the last century or so.  Yes there have been changes on much longer time scales but there are explanations for those. For example, Milankovitch cycles, which describe orbital variations of the earth and consequent changes in the amount of solar radiation received, correlate pretty well with swings between ice ages.  There are no such natural explanations for the changes happening at the moment.  In fact, the dominant natural forcings at the moment should be reducing temperatures: solar activity is decreasing; ENSO has been tending toward La Nina; atmospheric aerosols have been increasing. Never mind the (actually non-existent) 'pause' in warming, why aren't temperatures cooling globally?

Quote :
And I can assure you that the weather around here has NOT got warmer in the last 50 years. You could sunbathe on Redcar beach when I was a lad, but you'd probably freeze your cojones off nowadays.
So now you are saying it has changed in your lifetime? Hmmm...

As Peter said, you have to look at this globally. Some places might indeed get cooler as the globe warms as a whole. Look at what has been happening recently with 'blocked' patterns in the jet stream.  That could happen more often as a result of Arctic warming.  On the other hand, the UK might be affected relatively mildly but that doesn't mean we won't have problems if there are massive instabilities in other parts of the world.

The other point you have to bear in mind is that nobody sensible has ever said that we would be seeing huge effects by now.  The worry is about what sort of world we are leaving for our children and grandchildren.  The fact is you and I will be dead by the time the s**t hits the fan.  If the world waits until then to try doing anything, it will be too late. It would be like waiting until you can see the port before applying the brakes on your supertanker.
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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 08, 2013 10:08 am

The thread is about global warming (for those who read what they want into anything!); and nowhere have I said I don't think the climate changes!

If we were to believe what 'scientists' tell us, from their '70s' forecasts we would now be living on an ice plateau or frozen to death.

So in 40 years time, this fair isle of ours will be what? A desert? A tropical jungle? A swamp? Or just water?

Bah, HUMBUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!rofl 
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Spog
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 08, 2013 2:08 pm

And where did I say that I wasn't talking about global warming?  Look up global in a dictionary and then look up local. You'll see there is a difference.  In fact this is the point that Peter made. I can't say anything else because I don't know which part of it you don't understand.

As for the climate changing, I thought I had covered that too. It changes when there is something to make it change. It doesn't happen by magic. The climate has been remarkably stable for the last 10000 years or so (permitting the rise of agriculture and the establishment of stable civilisations).  Since you agree that the climate is now changing, what is causing that?  

I've probably answered your (and others') claim about "70's forecasts" at least three times now. I can only conclude that you are happy to make stuff up when it suits you.
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edradour
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edradour

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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 08, 2013 2:47 pm

Really I did not think the above material would haved stirred so many members to reply at length, now and in the past, with their theories and our theories, but unless I have noticed (which I have) MOTHER EARTH keeps turning and every day I am still here. Still the theories come out from everyone🤔 
I think it is the way mother earth wants things, not how we would like it, irrespective how we think it should be.
I am sure that Mother earth will let you know when she does not like something.
Keep fiddling and there will be one almighty bang. girlnuke What was that theory again.crazy bye 

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ff
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 08, 2013 3:01 pm

Spot on edradour, I'm doing a Jen on this subject; they only mis-read my posts. doh 
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ff
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Hmmm!

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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 15, 2013 10:48 pm

There is so much mis-information out there that I find it impossible to form an informed opinion on this.

At first I was convinced that there was some warming happening and I gradually came to the conclusion that it is exacerbated by what mankind is doing.

Then, as I realised that there was a lot of money and some prestige attached to it all I became more skeptical. As usual "Follow the money" seems to be the rule.

The logical me says that if you have a planet with finite resources and you keep using them up, finding new ones, using them up too, then there has to be a day of reckoning at some point. What form that will take I don't know.

No one seems to be looking at the long-term effects of what they are doing to the planet; everyone puts short-term gain ahead of concern for future generations. "If we don't do it then someone else will" seems to be the excuse. Follow the money trail....

The love of money......
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GGSS
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 16, 2013 2:05 pm

More info to be manipulated...

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ff
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 16, 2013 4:41 pm

Just nature doing what nature does.....
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Peter Goodwin
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Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 16, 2013 6:05 pm

GGSS: Following the money is a pretty good general guide (it's my usual starting point), but there are times when it's an unaffordable luxury. Like when it's our own response (or failure to respond) that decides what happens next.

I don't think, in the face of the overwhelming consensus of scientific evidence that man's behaviour is changing the face of the planet, with all the outcomes that that will bring, that you can sit on the fence. There's too much at stake.

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(cartoon from the Australian)
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auguste1
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 27, 2014 10:48 pm

Just when you thought that consensus was about to break out. This happens. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Peter Goodwin
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 9:49 pm

It's all gone quiet here, hasn't it? Does that mean we've finally got a consensus that man is causing climate change?

There's an interesting analysis of how the movement to encourage denial ('the Climate Denial Beast') evolved at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Spog
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 02, 2014 10:46 pm

Peter, thanks for posting this.  I am sure I have mentioned in this thread the work of Naomi Oreskes who has documented various connections between thinktanks who have in the past denied the effects of acid rain, tobacco etc. and those now denying the conclusions of climate science.  It is clear from many of the contributions on this thread how successful their campaigns to spread misinformation have been.
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Spog
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ff
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PostSubject: Re: Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic?   Global warming. Is it happening? If so, is it anthropogenic? - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 02, 2014 11:07 pm

Quote :
climate science


Ho, ho, ho!!! rofl 
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